Other interesting comments from the Contribution section. Information about our services.


The most complete Familienbuch that was published until now [end of 2005] is Nikolaus HORN's "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde Nakodorf im Banat 1790-1945 und deren Filiale Lunga 1824-1920 (ergänzt bis 1990 aus den Kirchenbüchern der Pfarrei Groß-Komlosch)".
The CD variant of the book offers the information [in HTML format] like this:

Familie 2434
JÄGER Michael rk Krämer, Bauer hS,
* er.1778 Königshofen in Grabfeld † 09.03.1854 Nakodorf
SV: Jaeger, Jeger;
oo 23.02.1800 Nakodorf Tz: Kroditje Anton, Götz Johann;
WEISSGERBER Elisabeth rk 1.oo 1665
* 27.07.1772 Kleinjetscha † 13.08.1830 Nakodorf
Eltern: Weißgerber Friedrich und NN Katharina; SV: Weiszgerber; Q. Fb Kleinjetscha 639/W45, Fb Großjetscha II, 406/w209;

1. Elisabeth * 14.04.1801 Nakodorf † 18.04.1801 Nakodorf
2. Maria Anna * 24.10.1802 Nakodorf † 23.10.1803 Nakodorf
3. Stefan * 08.09.1804 Nakodorf
4. Anna Maria * 08.11.1806 Nakodorf o-o 2436
                       1.oo 11.05.1824 Nakodorf, Petri Johann > 4664
                       2.oo 09.05.1830 Nakodorf, Hiesl Johann > 2200
5. Michael * 23.10.1808 Nakodorf † 28.10.1808 Nakodorf
6. Margarethe * 30.03.1810 Nakodorf
                       oo 10.07.1825 Nakodorf, Bohn Christoph > 550
7. Katharina * 09.06.1813 Nakodorf
                     oo 20.11.1832 Nakodorf, Telbisz Nikolaus > 5893

2.oo 01.09.1833
Nakodorf Tz: Graf Johann, Reinholz Mathias;
WALDNER Elisabeth rk
* er.1809
            Hk: Hatzfeld (?);
8. Barbara * 15.06.1837 Nakodorf
                  oo 12.06.1854 Nakodorf, Reinholz Mathias > 4879
9. Franz * 05.05.1839 Nakodorf
              oo 17.05.1864 Ostern, Zuleger Rosalia > 2438
10. Elisabeth * 11.02.1841 Nakodorf
11. Antonia * 07.04.1849 Nakodorf † 07.06.1850 Nakodorf

Tp 1. Veran Ludwig, Veran Katharina; 2. Lender Ludwig, Götz Maria Anna; 3. Kolosváry Stefan (Pfarrer), Graf Theresia; 4. Fohsz Johann u.Efr. Anna Maria; 5. Jäger Christoph u.Efr. Katharina; 6. Jäger Christoph, Hetzer Margarethe; 7. Gittling Karl u.Efr. Katharina; 8. Stöber Peter, Stöber Barbara; 9. Klug Franz, Stöber Barbara; 10. Stöber Peter, Stöber Barbara; 11. Stöber Peter, Stöber Barbara;

The different members of the families are linked together and you can navigate easily from a page to another. There is also a general alphabetical Index that allows changing to different family very easily.

At the first glimpse the information in Nakodorf Familienbuch is offered in a somehow complicated manner. This is just a first impression due the fact that the language used is the German language and there is no explanation in English language for the various abbreviations used and for the meaning of the German words listed.

But even in the Nakodorf Familienbuch, where is offered the wealthiest information from all the existing Familienbuchs, some information's are still not given:
-the exact date when the family was living in a certain house,
-the name of the midwife,
-the dates when the marriage was announced publicly in the church for 3 times,
-if the deceased received the last Eucharist or not,
-the name of the priest assisting the different genealogical events,
-the cause of death.
The author mentioned [in a private e-mail] that, unfortunately, the PC program he used did not allow(ed) him to lists all the information he wanted in the exact shape he wanted.


The WORST Familienbuch that was published until now is Katharina FRANK's "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde Wiseschdia im Banat 1800-2005". We had the opportunity, shortly after the book was published in 2005, to work only one research project in Wiseschdia and what we found just horrified us because we came to the conclusion that the author makes ALL the possible mistakes [and more!]:

a. the author makes constantly mistakes regarding the date in which a genealogical event occurred.
For example, just in the case of one family 5 dates are wrong [see entrance 1787 at page 392-393]:

The fact that we are talking about an extended practice is underlined also by the case of another family [see entrance 1615, page 354] where exists 4 such mistakes:

b. the author do not makes obvious links between the different members of the same family [see entrance 1787 at page 392 / image at a.].

Susanna BRATAN B~1819 was, in fact, B 9.12.1815 in Wiseschdia as daughter of Sebastian BRADAN & Catharina. There are strong evidences for this link:
- Susanna is listed always as originally from Wiseschdia [at her M and at her D]
- Susanna B 9.12.1815 will not D or M in Wiseschdia
- Susanna is listed as being 20 years old [so, B~1816] at her M 8.05.1836 with Caspar LUIBL. So, it's not understandable why the autor gives credit to the age listed at her death [30 eszt.(endo), so B~1819] then her own statement done at her marriage. But even so, a difference of 3-4 years [given by the age listed at the death] and the exact date of birth is quite common and accepted in Banat's research.

c. the author do not extracted all the genealogical events from the church records. For example [without searching on purpose!]:
D 2.12.1867 in Wiseschdia, Eva GYURCSEF nata DASZINGER, pleb.[ea], Caroli GURCSEF uxor, 35 annor, living in Wiseschdia House no. 38, cause of death: arteritiae phthisis, buried on December 12. in Wiseschdia cemetery
M2. 20.02.1868 in Wiseschdia
-Carolus GYURCSEF, 41 years old, son of Georgii & M.[aria]Anna BRATAN, originally from Wiseschdia, living in Wiseschdia House no. 4, viduus Eva DASZINGER
-Catharina HÖNIG, 40 years old, daughter of Georgii & Anna BLÉSZin, originally from M.[agno] Kikinda, living in Kis Bikács House no. 187
TNCC Joannes DASZINGER, agricola, Jacobus KOLLMER

See also entrance 1787.7 at page 392 / image at a.
In the original church record exists: D 22.08.1849, LUIBL Ferentz, 1/2 eszt.[endo] / years old, child of LUIBL Gáspar & BRATAN Susanna
Because this child died at 6 months old, and the only child born for this couple in a good time frame was Magdalena B 7.01.1849, we can conclude that the priest made a mistake in recording the death of a Ferentz when, in fact, Magdalena B 7.01.1849 died.

d. the author makes huge mistakes in interpreting the different genealogical events [see entrance 1783 at page 391]:

Katharina which died on 2.10.1816 in Wiseschdia was only 21 days old and she is listed in the original church register as the daughter of Joannes LOIBL !
So, Michael LOIBL did not had 2 wife's and Katharina HUJER's name is written also as Maria [Anna Maria, Anna] HAUER / HUJAR, and she will D on 1.08.1867 in Wiseschdia.

Even a biggest mistake is done in the case of Katharina KEIL, daughter of Lorenz & Magdalena.
According to Wiseschdia Familienbuch she M1. 13.11.1825 in Wiseschdia with Anton LIPPET. But, in fact, she
M1. [??] Josef KOLMAN / GOLMER [D [??]] with whom she had a child in Wiseschdia [Joannes, B 11.01.1815; D 26.02.1815]; then
M2. 21.01.1817 in Wiseschdia [she is listed clearly in the church record as Theresia KOLMAN vidua] with Georg LAUB [D 22.11.1824, Wiseschdia] and only then
M3. 13.11.1825 in Wiseschdia [she could be listed wrongly in the church record as coelebs] with Anton LIPPET and she will
D 23.03.1860 in Wiseschdia at 66 years old as Theresia nata / born KEIL.

e. the author can not decipher correctly all the names of the persons involved in the genealogical events [see the god-parents at entrance 1783.4, 1783.8, at page 391 / image at d.]
Another example, she deciphered the MESS family name as HESS. Because the genealogical event leading to this mistake is a marriage from 26.04.1891, date when the handwriting is quite clear in the church records, there is no excuse for this mistake.
It's quite interesting that the MESS / MESZ family name is listed having a spelling variation METZ. Why is listed this spelling variation, when in Wiseschdia KB's exists only one genealogical event [M 26.04.1891] in which a member of this family was involved in this village and where the family name is listed clearly as MESS, is a question without answer. The family is originally from Gottlob where this METZ spelling variation is never found.

f. the author do not use all the existing Familienbuch in her work in order to clarify the different aspects regarding persons born in other villages [see entrance 1784 at page 391-392]:

g. the author even invents inexistent genealogical events:
B 15.12.1867, C 15.12., Anna, do Franciscus LOIBL, inquilinus & Catharina LAUB, living in H 68, God-Parents: Joannes LIPPETH, agricola, Anna LOIBL; Balthasarus HOBSCHA, parochus.
According to Wiseschdia Familienbuch [see at page 395, entrance 1795.1], Anna D 15.12.1867 in Wiseschdia. No such genealogical event - i.e. her D - was found in the original church register.

Another example of such inventions is given by entrance 267 from page 74 [also entrance 2824.12, page 603]:

Even if the author of Wiseschdia FB did not know the date when the marriage occurred and even if this marriage did not occurred in Wiseschdia, she lists Eva STREIT as the wife of Johann BIRKENHEUER without any prove! In fact, not Eva STREIT [B 1887 according to her niece] but her younger sister Anna STREIT [B 18.05.1889] married with Johann BIRKENHEIER.
Eva STREIT arrived in USA / Ellis Island on 30.01.1907 on the board of steamship Neckar coming from Bremen. From the ship manifest is clear that Eva, age 19, was going to Chicago, to join her brother-in-law, Johann BIRKENHAUER. Eva STREIT married on 10.04.1909 in Chicago with Franz MÜLLER.

h. the author do not know the most simplest [but important for genealogical research!] Latin or Hungarian words existing in the original church records and due this fact she makes the most "comic" mistakes.
For example, in Wiseschdia FB is listed wrongly a first marriage for Anna SCHMIDT with Johann KARTIER [B~1824; D~1848] with whom she had a child, Mathias B 25.08.1849 in Lunga. This is how the situation is presented also in Nakodorf Familienbuch [see at Familie 2691]. But Nikolaus HORN do not know that SCHMIDT Anna is listed as "hajadon" [i.e. single, unmarried girl (in Hungarian language)] at her M 14.05.1849 in Wiseschdia:
M2. 14.05.1849
-LUIBL Gáspár, 33y, özvegy, polgár, originally from Wiseschdia, living in Wiseschdia
-SCHMIDT Anna, 24y, hajadon, originally from Nakofalva, living in Nakofalva
P. GROISZ Adrian, Kaplar.
It's quite possible that Anna SCHMIDT had in Lunga an illegitimate child with Johann KARTIER and this is why she accepted to marry a widower older then her with 10 years.

i. the author makes constantly wild assumptions [see, for example, entrance 2303 at page 497 or the MESS dates from e.] on the age of the parents knowing only the date of birth of one child. How can she do this when the couples had children in a period of more then 20 years? Well, the answer it’s just a mystery but proves that this bad example, given for the first time in Hatzfeld Familienbuch [a work also full with mistakes which makes it another huge disappointment], was very contagious.
More, she did assumptions on the age of the parents having only the second marriage of the child! [see entrance 2299, 2300 and 2301 at page 496, 497]

j. In Wiseschdia FB are listed a lot of information on families which never lived here or were not linked in any way with this village.
For example, at page 405-410, are listed 16 LUX families [from number 1843 to 1851, 1854 to 1858, and 1861 to 1863] and their adjacent families [see number 113, 1702, 1966, 2476, 2773, 2880, 2885]. None of these families ever lived in Wiseschdia but mainly in Brettnach / Germany, Tschanad / Cenad, Sankt Martin / Sânnmartin, Deutsch Sankt Peter / Sânnpetru German.
Why are these families listed in Wiseschdia FB is one of the too many mysteries of this FB.

k. the author makes quite inexplicable mistakes [see entrance 1784 at page 391-392 / see f.].
In the original church record is very clear given the fact that Margaretha BRATAN was the daughter of Raphaelis & Catharina STIBER, she was 56 years old, originally from Szilas alias Deutsch Szt. Miklós, was living in House no. 22 in Wiseschdia, and that she was Petri ZOLLER vidua and not the widow of Johann STUFFLE [see entrance 2831 at page 604] as Margaretha BREATAN [daughter of Karl & Katharina ZERNAPOPA] was.
More, Margaretha BRATAN will D 15.05.1890 in Wiseschdia as ZELLER Margaretha nata BRATAN, vidua Petri ZELLER, 88 years old, originally from Rauthendorf, living in Wiseschdia House no. 93, marasmus senilis, buried in Wiseschdia cemetery on May 26 by Sebastianus JAEGER, parochus.

In Romanian language exists a proverb: "When two people tells you that you are drunk, you should go to bad"! When two different genealogical events tells you that you are dealing with Margaretha BRATAN, the widow of Peter ZOLLER / ZELLER, and you still think that you are dealing with the widow of Johann STUFFLE, you should abandon the genealogical research because it's not suitable for your abilities. Unfortunately, we will remain "stuck" with this poor and useless Wiseschdia Familienbuch because nobody will produce a better one.

And Katharina FRANK already announced that her next project is to continue Philip LUNG's Gottlob Familienbuch up to XX Century [M.C.-12.11.2007: she died in July 2007 without finishing this project]; paraphrasing another Romanian proverb, we would say "God forbid from the well-wisher because from the malevolent I will shelter myself".

Abbreviations & Notes:
[??] = when & where
i.e. abbreviation for the Latin id est, meaning "that is" or "in other words"
KB abbreviation for the German Kirchenbuch / church book or church register
B abbreviation for Born
M abbreviation for Marriage
D abbreviation for Death
For other abbreviations check Abbreviations used by GenealogyRO Group

Hatzfeld Familienbuch = "Familienbuch Hatzfeld. Die ersten 100 Jahre im Spiegel der Matrikeln der röm. kath. Pfarrkirche (Hatzfeld, Klari, Tschene, Ketscha, Dt. Zerne und herrschaftliche Domänen) 1766-1866", by Dr. Emmerich HENZ, Rheda-Wiedenbrück, 1998, CD variant.
Check here Dave DREYER's analyze on Franz BERTRAM, Edith HEUER, Elisabeth STRICKER's "Familienbuch der deutschen Familien aus Rekasch im Banat 1740-2002", Heimatortsgemeinschaft (HOG) Rekasch e.V., 2003, 510 pages.

Check here Dave DREYER's consideration on Nikolaus SCHRAMM's [mit Mathias Egler, Peter Klein, Josef Schramm] "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde Giseladorf und Panjowa", Heimatortsgemeinschaft (HOG) Giseladorf / Panjowa, Karlsruhe, 2001.