Other interesting comments from the Contribution section. Information about our services.


At the end of 2005, the long waited and announced Triebswetter Familienbuch by Lothar RENARD was finally published.

It's a standard Familienbuch but which is accompanied, for the first time, by a CD containing images - available for consulting and research - with all the pages existing in all the parish church records [* 1773-1832, oo 1773-1868, † 1773-1850] covered also by the microfilm existing at the "Family History Library" [FHL; Triebswetter, Nagyosz; microfilm no. 0858374, 0858375] of the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" and at "Institut für Auslandsbeziehungen" [microfilm no. 128 RO] from Stuttgart, Germany. Unfortunately, some of the pictures are useless because they were done at a very low resolution, some are too white/"burned" and some of them are even missing [from our copy are missing all the pictures covering the period † 1825-1850]. Nevertheless, we must note this revolutionary change of concept in which the Familienbuch becomes just a simple index, a working tool for the original church records [ please consult also our comment Familienbuch / Ortssippenbuch, just a simple index ?! ].

It must be noted the effort made by the author in finding a way to reproduce, in a standardized fashion, all the information existing in the original records. In this aspect, Triebswetter Familienbuch follows the good tradition opened by the Nakodorf Familienbuch.

Also it should be noted the fact that a lot of additional information - about the colonization, the military service, the emigration, etc. - is published along with the core of the Familienbuch. Unfortunately, this very interesting information is given only in German language when probably more then half of the buyers are Americans!

But Triebswetter Familienbuch contain also much to many mistakes and omissions. Again, we did checked randomly only several families and find very quickly that in each case exists huge problems:

1] The author do not know the basic Latin words existing in the church records [these are only a few and there is no excuse not knowing their correct meaning!]. For example, in volume I, at page 418, entrance 0330, he lists Anna GAUCHE, † 25.01.1771 in Mercydorf as inquiliui. The author is convinced that inquiliui means [he puts = /i.e. equal] einquartierte /i.e. billeted. In fact, in Latin language, the correct form is inquilini / inquilinus [with N and not with U !] which is a serfs with less than an eight of Session of land [i.e. 7 Joch of land composed from: 5 Joch agricultural land + 1 Joch of grass-land + 1 Joch land for the house and for the garden] but owner of the house in which he was living. The term has a clear social status meaning and has nothing to do with the fact that a person is billeted in a certain place.
1 Joch = 0,575 Hektar / 5751,7 m2 = 1,43 acres. see more in our post

2] important genealogical events are missing from the Familienbuch. For example:
M 20.05.1845 [see CD, Eheregister, Buch 2, image 1845-93, entrance no. 8]
-MITTELBRUN Adam, 20y, nötlen, originally from Szt. Miklós
-DÜRAND Katalin, 22y [*~1823], hajadon, originally from Triebswetter
Witness: SCHREYER Jozsef, COLIN Ferenc

Adam was born on 22.12.1824 in Sânnicolau Mare as the son of Michael MITTELBRUNN & Catharina OSZTIE [Oster, Ost, etc.]. He is the brother of Joannes & Michael MITTELBRUNN [entrance 1869 and 1870 from Triebswetter FB, vol. II, page 758].
The big problem is raised by the identification of DÜRAND Katalin [*~1823]. She is the sister of Maria DURAND [* 3.03.1816, Triebswetter, daughter of Francisc & Catharina LAURENT; oo 12.02.1838, Triebswetter, Michael MITTELBRUNN, † 5.02.1884, Sânnicolau Mare]. This is quite obvious because we are talking about two brothers marring two sisters. But which sister? Because there are - at least! - two possibilities:
-Catharina DURAND, * 27.10.1818, H 38 (vermutlivh vestorben)
-Catharina DURAND, * 15.02.1821, H 38, Triebswetter; oo 7.06.1843, Triebswetter, Michael FEIT; † 29.03.1901, Triebswetter
And if the first Catharina DURAND [* 27.10.1818] did not died [as the Triebswetter Familienbuch's author supposed groundless because her death was not found in the KB's] as an infant child up to 15.02.1821, when the second Catharina was born? Such things did not happened very often in Banat but exists cases when the family had two children bearing the same first name. And if the Catharina marrying on 7.06.1843 with Michael FEIT is the first Catharina [* 27.10.1818] ? And if the second Catharina [* 15.02.1821] actually married on 20.05.1845 with Adam MITTELBRUNN and she will died in Sânnicolau Mare [where the family moved after the marriage]? A very plausible scenario but only further research can bring some light and clarify this very complicated issue raised by a missing genealogical event.

3] The author of Triebswetter Familienbuch did not know - and he should! - that Triebswetter's first genealogical events - from June 1772 until the village's own Roman Catholic parish was set up in February 1773 - were recorded in the nearby Roman Catholic parish of Sânnicolau Mare / Großsanktnikolaus / Nagyszéntmiklós.
Due this fact, important information was not recorded in the Triebswetter Familienbuch. For example:
7.10.1772, Antonius Josephus, son of Caroli KORDIE, 9 mensis / months old, originally from Hatsfeldii /i.e. Hatzfeld / Jimbolia, living in Triebswetter. And KORDIE is not given as spelling variation for the family name CORDIER [vol. I, page 456, entrance 0467].
14.11.1772, Joannes Petrus FRISCH, relicta vidua, 47 years old, originally from Lotharingia, living in Trübswetterensis.
* 30.09.1772, Anna Barbara, daughter of Franciscus SADI & Elisabetha conj.(ux)/legal wife, Godparents: Die Mosse, Anna Loison.
Etc. [the whole list is to long to be completely published here]

4] The author does not explain all the abbreviations he used in his work. We do not find explanations for abbreviations like Petri/Wolf, WK, Loth in the Zeichenerklärung section [volume I, page 334] of the book. Why?
Petri/Wolf = "Heimatbuch der Heidegemeinde Triebswetter im Banat" by Dr. Anton Peter Petri & Dr. Josef Wolf, Herausgegeben von der Triebswetterer Heimatortsgemeinschaft, Verlagsdruckerei J. F. Bofinger KG, Tuttlingen, 1983, 531 pages.
WK = "Quellen zur deutschen Siedlungsgeschite in Südosteuropa", bearbeitet von Dr. Franz Wilhelm & Dr. Josef Kalbrunner, Ernst Reinhardt Verlag, München, 1936, 416 pages
Loth = Lotharingia / Lothringen

5] In Triebswetter Familienbuch are used massively unchecked and wrong information taken from the Treffil Buch even if these information are not supported by the findings from the original KB's or even contradicts information's published in other Familienbuch.
Peter TREFFIL [* 4.07.1858; † 21.01.1935] was blacksmith in Triebswetter. He was a sort of local "genealogist" and not only recorded everything that happened during his lifetime but also noted the dates of birth, the nicknames, the original owner of the houses, the old/new house number, etc. including sometimes his own comments regarding a family or person. This work was published in the Banat Schwob dialect from Triebswetter under the title "Das Treffil Buch" and could be an endless source of nice pungent [if you know the dialect!]. For us is crystal clear that Treffil recorded only the oral tradition of the Triebswetter inhabitants and that he did not do any search in the church books for exact information. But this oral tradition is very dangerous because, usually, people do not know exact details regarding the genealogical events in which their grandparents/grand-grandparents were involved. So, the information recorded in the Treffil Buch becomes more and more unreliable as is more and more older. In no circumstances this kind of oral tradition / information should be included in scientific works, like a Familienbuch, without double-checking it in the original church books. But the author of Triebswetter Familienbuch did this mistake!

For example [with red are listed our comments], at page 226 in Treffil Buch [ see the original ] is listed for house no.

Ansiedler 1772 Johann Jakob Matthias

Weismandel Johannes *1699 †1748, 49 False! The name of the family's patriarch was Adam according to Hatzfeld Familienbuch, entrance 13318.
ist der Stammvater der Weismandels.
Johannes ist aus Elsasz Lothringen, Langenheim False! It's Laubenheim.
Dieser hatte 2 Söhne, Johann u. Karl.

Johann zog nach Banat *1728 †1792, 23/9 64 False! His name was Heinrich, * 22.02.1733, Laubenheim, D; † [??].
Sein Weib Elisabeth Hellbauer *1731 †1767, 36 False! Anna Elisabeth, *~1741; † 5.09.1786, Jimbolia.
Johann u. Elisabeth waren in Haztfeld gewohnt.
Diese Haztfelder hatten 5 Kinder: False! The couple had at least 13 (probably 14) children from which at least 8 (9) survived.
- Martin zog nach Triebswetter,
- Peter zog nach Sultur, False! There was no Peter among Heinrich's children and there is no trace of any Peter WEISMANN(DEL) in Sankt Hubert KB's.
- Karl zog nach Charlevile, False! There was no Karl among Heinrich's children and there is no trace of any Karl WEISMANN(DEL) in Sankt Hubert KB's.
- Elisabeth, Her full name was Maria Elisabeth.
- Josepf zog nach Hatzfeld. Joseph remained in Hatzfeld only up to April 1808.

Martin Weismandl der Triebswetterer
*1749 †1798, 17/2 49 False! Martin was * 7.04.1774, Jimbolia and † 24.03.1846, Triebswetter. There never existed a person Martin WEISMANDL *1749, oo Clara BURGHARDT, †1798 !
Sein Weib Clara Burghardt †1803, 21/4 False! Martin's wife † 9.08.1802 in Triebswetter was Christina LEFFOR.
Des 1749 geborenen sein Nachkommen:
Martin Weismandl *1774 †1846, 24/3 False! Martin [* 7.04.1774, Jimbolia; † 24.03.1846, Triebswetter] was not the son of … himself but the son of Heinrich.
Sein Weib Charlotte Piar †1839, 7/X False! Her name was Magdalena (Charlotte) PIERRE and she was Martin's second wife. Martin was married for 3 times.

Die Kinder des 1774 geb. Martin Weismandl: False! Martin [* 7.04.1774, Jimbolia] had 12 children. The 5 children listed here are only some of the children from his second marriage; not even all the surviving children of this second marriage are listed by Treffil; is missing Maria [* 7.10.1810, Triebswetter; oo 19.11.1827, Triebswetter, Nicolaus PIERRE; † 28.03.1847, Triebswetter].
- Katharina *1809, 7/2 259
- Anna Maria *1817, 9/5 322
- Martin *1819, 24/1 439
- Peter *1823, 21/7 442
- Georg *1824, 5/2 †1825, 439 False! This child did not existed! From where did the Triebswetter FB's author invented his birth date as 5.02.1824 when Treffil has only *1824 ? And why is he listed in the FB when his birth and death were not found in the original Triebswetter's church records? A simple look-up in the Hatzfeld Familienbuch would forestall easily this mistake.
Trusting blindly the information existing in the Treffil Buch, the author of the Triebswetter Familienbuch sustain that Martin WEISSMANTEL was * um 1774, as son of Johann & Clara BURKHARDT when, in fact, he was * 7.04.1774 in Jimbolia as son of Heinrich & Anna Elisabetha NN.

6] In the book are listed information which does not exists in the original church records. For example, at the marriage between Martin WEISSMANTEL and Christina LEFORT [vol. II, page 1040, entrance 3000], is listed the fact that the groom was originally from Jimbolia [ex Hatzfeld]. In fact, such detail is not given in the original church record:

The bride is listed in the Familienbuch as Christina LEFORT at her marriage when in the original church record is Christina LEFFOR. And LEFFOR is not given as spelling variation for the LEFORT family name [see vol. II, page 690, entrance 1391, where only FOHR, FORIN, LEFOR, LEFOUR are listed]!

7] The first line from the above picture was the source for other endless questions. It's clear from the picture that:
oo 22(.05.1798)
-Johannes BERTAN, viduis Sulturens.(i)
-Francisca TIEBO, coelebs Tribwetterensi
Witness: Josephus DENI [his name was DENIS; the witness at Johannes's first marriage and relative with his first wife] from Szent Hubertens & Claudius MOMBER, hujas

The Triebswetter Familienbuch's author list this info in volume I, at page 384, entrance 0195 as:

Several questions arise from here:
- from where was taken the Berlan / Berlang spelling variations of the family name?
- from where is taken the Joann form for the first name when in the KB's is Johannes, name which in Latin language is Joannes, in German language is Johann / Johannes / Hans / etc. and in French is Jean ?
In fact, Joann is the English variant for the Johanna name [the female form for John]. And the author used this female name for all the males named Joannes / Johannes in the original KB's!
In Triebswetter Familienbuch is used a non standardized way of listing the first names; we did not checked each name but it seams that some names are listed in their Latin form [like Bartholomäus, Christophorus, Carolus, Claudius, Dominicus, Hubertus, Ludevicus, Petrus, etc], some names are listed always in their German form [all the female first names, Georg, Joseph, Jacob, etc.] some names are listed interchangeably [Franciscus / Franz, Nicolaus / Nikolaus, Antonius / Anton, etc.].
- how was invented the name of the village Solothurn when is crystal clear that in the KB's is used the Latin form Sulturens.(i) and the name of the village was Seultour [in German -Solthurn, Seultour, Seulthurn, Soltour, Soltur; in French -Seultour; in Hungarian: Nagy-Orosz, Szoltur, Szeultorn, Szentborbála; in Serbian -Orosin; Variants -Mare Oroszin, Seultourn, Sultur, etc.] ?
- why was invented the age of the bride [* um 1780 /i.e. 18 years old ] when she is listed only as coelebs and she could be between 14-24 years old?
- why the easy link with entrance 0257 from page 36 of Sankt Hubert Familienbuch [published in 2004] was not done? Trough this link we would find also the genuine form of the family name:

8] The author of Triebswetter Familienbuch was accused publicly for unethical behavior by a French researcher shortly after the book was published. The whole story is summarized here.
The French researcher sustained that he had substantial contributions to a number of 78 families of first settlers (of a total of 200) without receiving any acknowledgement for his contributions. For example, family no. 20 / page 340 is listed in the Triebswetter Familienbuch as:

It seams that the whole info existing here [beside the death date and the complementary info regarding his age, house no., origin] is received from the French researcher.

The correct example on how these things must be done was already given by a book published more then one year before Triebswetter Familienbuch. It's about Josef KÜHN's "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde Saint Hubert, Charleville und Soltur (ohne Heufeld und Mastort) im Banat, 1770-1835/1854", AVBF, 2004, 553 pages.
Josef KÜHN solved very elegantly the quoting problem:
1] inside the book, at each family was done the notation Erg. [abbreviation for Ergänzungen = completion, supplement]:

2] at pages XV-XIX, were are listed all his sources of information and the French researcher is listed twice as source of info and as contributor to the book.
3] not to mention that even on the main cover of Saint Hubert Familienbuch is listed Herkunftsforschung: Charles Amann, Bousbach, France.

After one month, the author of Triebswetter Familienbuch offers an public explanation on Banat List regarding this problem: "Unfortunately, a page has been left out at the book's editing. The map has been glued in the book instead [of this page]. I should have attached this page to the book" / "Beim Druck des Buches ist leider in der Druckerei eine Seite übergangen worden, dafür wurde die Landkarte eingeklebt, die lose dem Buch hätte beigefügt werden sollen". Also, he sustain that the French researcher was notified in writing about this mistake and this mistake will be corrected in the future.
In fact, the page prior to the map is numbered now as no. 4 and the page after the map is numbered as no. 5. If a page, containing acknowledgements, should be published here instead of the map [map which need no numbering!], this page was numbered as .?. !? Instead of following the Kühn's example, all the acknowledgements for the Triebswetter Familienbuch were listed in a page that disappeared during the editing, publishing or printing process. What a mess!

In his post to Banat List, the author of the Triebswetter Familienbuch mentioned that "I don't want to enter here into details on the "GenealogyRO Group's" criticism / Ich will hier nicht auf die einzelnen Kritikpunkte der "Group" eingehen" but took the opportunity to launch an meanly attacked to GenealogyRO Group and particularly at one member of our group. An English translation of his e-mail was posted also on Banat-List. We considered being our obligation to respond also on Banat List to some of his allegations.

Triebswetter Familienbuch = "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde TRIEBSWETTER / Banat mit Auswertung der Kirchenbücher von Triebswetter * 1773-1832, oo 1773-1868, † 1773-1850 und den Filianen Wiseschdia (1800-1803) und Dugoszello (1807-1818)" by Lothar RENARD, AKdFF, 2005, Band I, II, 1074 pages.
Nakodorf Familienbuch = "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde Nakodorf im Banat 1790-1945 und deren Filiale Lunga 1824-1920 (ergänzt bis 1990 aus den Kirchenbüchern der Pfarrei Groß-Komlosch) by Nikolaus HORN."
Treffil Buch = "Das Treffil Buch" by Heinz VOGEL, Brumar-Verlag Timisoara / Temeschburg, 1999, ISBN 973-9295-43-6, 604 pages.
Hatzfeld Familienbuch = "Familienbuch Hatzfeld. Die ersten 100 Jahre im Spiegel der Matrikeln der röm. kath. Pfarrkirche (Hatzfeld, Klari, Tschene, Ketscha, Dt. Zerne und herrschaftliche Domänen) 1766-1866", by Dr. Emmerich HENZ, Rheda-Wiedenbrück, 1998, CD variant.
Sankt Hubert Familienbuch = "Familienbuch der katholischen Pfarrgemeinde Saint Hubert, Charleville und Soltur (ohne Heufeld und Mastort) im Banat, 1770-1835/1854", by Josef KÜHN, AVBF, 2004, 553 pages.

In Jimbolia / Hatzfeld Familienbuch:
* 22.02.1733, Laubenheim, Germany, son of Adam WEISSMANTEL & Maria Anna NN [hatten 7 Kinder]
Wien: 30.05.1771, WK page 146, entrance 64, as Heinrich WIESMANDEL, aus dem Mainzischen, 5 persons
† [??]
NN, Anna Elisabeth
* ~1741
† 5.09.1786, Jimbolia
a) Maria Katharina, * 9.12.1764, Laubenheim; † 27.12.1764, Laubenheim
b) Anton, * 17.10.1765, Laubenheim; † 23.10.1765, Laubenheim
c) Maria Elisabeth, * 9.04.1767, Laubenheim, Ehe siehe <1>
d) Wendelin, * 27.01.1769, Laubenheim; † 27.11.1826, Jimbolia, oo2.Ehe siehe <13322>
e) Friedrich, * 25.10.1770, Laubenheim
[?] Margaretha, *~1771; oo [??] Jacob SCHREYER; † 18.07.1807, Triebswetter, ex Mannheim
f) Johann, * 13.10.1772, Jimbolia; † 20.05.1773, Jimbolia
g) Martin, * 7.04.1774, Jimbolia; † 24.03.1846, Triebswetter
h) Katharina Aloysia, * 1.01.1776, Jimbolia; † 10.08.1777, Jimbolia
i) Barbara, * 08.11.1777, Jimbolia, Ehe siehe <2319>
j) Nikolaus, * 26.10.1779, Jimbolia; † 30.12.1779, Jimbolia
k) Anna Maria, * 24.11.1780, Jimbolia; † 13.04.1781, Jimbolia
l) Johann, * 13.01.1782, Jimbolia
m) Josef, * 6.11.1783, Jimbolia, Ehe siehe <13329>

WEIßMANN, Johann
* 9.10.1740, son of Adam WEISMANDEL & Maria Anna [hatten 7 K.(inder)]
† 5.04.1818, Jimbolia
Wien: 25.05.1766, WK page 69, entrance 44, as Johannes WEISMAN, von Sinn [i.e. Sien, Kr.(eis) St. Wendel] aus dem römisches Reich
In d.BRgl.14: Johann WEISSMANN, 26 Jahre, ledig, ein Ackersmann, 2 Pers. In d.BStgl: eine Trauung.
Geheiratet als WEISMANTEL
oo 15.06.1766, Jimbolia
BERSCH, Katharina
* ~1746
† [??]
a) Johann, * 29.09.1767, Jimbolia; † 18.10.1767, Jimbolia
b) Franziska, * 01.11.1768, Jimbolia
c) Stefan, * 10.10.1771, Jimbolia
d) Anna, * 30.05.1774, Jimbolia; † 04.08.1778, Jimbolia, H no. 99
e) Johann, * 22.02.1777, Jimbolia; † 21.04.1778, Jimbolia
f) Michael, * 10.02.1779, Jimbolia; † 18.05.1781, Jimbolia
g) Heinrich, * 08.11.1781, Jimbolia
h) Maria Magdalena, * 08.10.1784, Jimbolia
i) Johann, * 07.04.1787, Jimbolia; † 15.12.1790, Jimbolia, H no. 99(98)
j) Michael, * 17.05.1790, Jimbolia; † 09.04.1794, Jimbolia

[??] when and where
[?] supposition
KB = church book / register
FB = Familienbuch